Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

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Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by XX Case XX »

I'm going to try my luck at "hand sharpening" some of my knives. I've never done it. I have about 15 "beater" knives to practice on, but have a few questions:

1. Should I use a stone or one of those "diamond" sharpeners?
2. What's the difference between the two?
3. Is there any advantage for one over the other?
4. Where can I find a good tutorial that will show me the correct way?

Any advise would be most appreciated...

_________
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by djknife13 »

For some of the harder blades like the Parker Surgical steel marked ones the stones aren't hard enough to sharpen them and I've had to use diamond embedded sharpeners but for most carbon steel blades the stones work fine with oil. Just keep your angle right, practice on your beaters and finish with a good steel. ___Dave
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by gwelker62 »

After I acquired a diamond Lansky kit.... I swear I'll never go back to stone.

One thing I don't do though is use oil on them. Dry is the way to go... at least IMO.
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by Dinadan »

I would get a soft or medium Arkansas stone and a diamond stone. Try both and see which you like best. Personally, I like a soft Arkansas oil stone about four inches long for my pocket knives. For my kitchen knives I use a six inch double grit stone.
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by garddogg56 »

Lansky diamond for SS especially for my 440 c ,for 1095 and the like I like an oil stone Norton for me :) then on both strop for finish.
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by philco »

If I were going to limit myself to one stone it would be a soft Arkansas stone. I have an inexpensive Smith's diamond sharpener set with a course and fine side. It is great for sharpening a very dull knife or for setting the edge angle I want on a knife I have not previously sharpened, but the diamond stones tend to take off a lot more metal than the Arkansas stones do.


I'd suggest taking a look at a Smith's Tri-Hone system with Arkansas stones if you've got a mind to take up sharpening free hand. I've used one for twenty plus years and wouldn't take anything for it.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ESYfw0sXRs

I see the Tri-Hone is now available with diamond stones too for about four times the cost of the one with Arkansas stones. You can find them on Amazon if you're interested.
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by gwelker62 »

garddogg56 wrote:<snip>then on both strop for finish.
ditto ::tu:: I don't consider the job done until you work it on the leather.

I like a polished edge too. IMO it last much longer and rarely have to touch it back up with a stone.
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by Mumbleypeg »

Here's a link to a post by Scott (TripleF) that references a good article explaining the differences between several types of sharpening stones. http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... ng#p394060

I was fortunate to have been taught how to freehand sharpen a knife by my grandfather, when I was about 10 years old. I agree with those who recommend you start out learning on a softer (courser) stone. They're not expensive. Then once you get the hang of it you can transfer the technique to about any kind you want. ::tu:: It's not wasted money - you'll likely still have use for a softer stone even after you get the harder ones. Nice thing about the tri-hones is you get three, soft to hard, stones.

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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by Stakeknife »

IN the mid 1950's I spent every summer with my Dear uncle Mike. He was a dirt farmers living In a grand old house in Onedia Kansas, my grandma lived there and as he was the youngest son it fell upon him to care for her. Everyday he and I would come home from the fields and wash up at the cistern pump in the pantry part of the kitchen. He taught me how to wash up to my elbows. We would then practice sharpening his pocket knife. He always had a folder of one brand or another in his pocket. Usually Case, or Kabar. Probably the only brands you could buy at the local hardware.

He would use a black stone that had a course texture on one side and a fine texture on the other. He helped a six year old under stand the process of taking your time and getting the angle just right. He insisted that the real secret was cutting the soft pine after sharpening.

For me the real treat back then were the apples he would bring from the cellar. We would use the newly sharpened knife to peel and cut the delicious fruit.

Looking back I now realize The knives never needed sharpening I think he just enjoyed our time together.
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by Colonel26 »

Stakeknife wrote:IN the mid 1950's I spent every summer with my Dear uncle Mike. He was a dirt farmers living In a grand old house in Onedia Kansas, my grandma lived there and as he was the youngest son it fell upon him to care for her. Everyday he and I would come home from the fields and wash up at the cistern pump in the pantry part of the kitchen. He taught me how to wash up to my elbows. We would then practice sharpening his pocket knife. He always had a folder of one brand or another in his pocket. Usually Case, or Kabar. Probably the only brands you could buy at the local hardware.

He would use a black stone that had a course texture on one side and a fine texture on the other. He helped a six year old under stand the process of taking your time and getting the angle just right. He insisted that the real secret was cutting the soft pine after sharpening.

For me the real treat back then were the apples he would bring from the cellar. We would use the newly sharpened knife to peel and cut the delicious fruit.

Looking back I now realize The knives never needed sharpening I think he just enjoyed our time together.
That's a fantastic story. Thanks for sharing it.
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by Colonel26 »

XX Case XX wrote:I'm going to try my luck at "hand sharpening" some of my knives. I've never done it. I have about 15 "beater" knives to practice on, but have a few questions:

1. Should I use a stone or one of those "diamond" sharpeners?
2. What's the difference between the two?
3. Is there any advantage for one over the other?
4. Where can I find a good tutorial that will show me the correct way?

Any advise would be most appreciated...

_________
Mike
I agree with Philco. Get an Arkansas stone, soft or maybe medium and learn how it's done. Diamond stones are only needed for the harder steels, or like he said setting the bevel like you want it.

Sharpening on a stone isn't hard, you just have to get the hang of it. And it is a skill worth learning. Like the others said though, strop the knife good afterwards.
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by KnifeSlinger#81 »

I've about tried them all, now I almost exclusively use a carborundum coarse/fine silicon carbide and a norton coarse/fine india stone. I dip them in water for lubrication. You couldn't possibly need more, silicon carbide chews through the hardest steel and the india can put a really good polish on nice and quick. Hundreds of knives with multiple blades I rarely care to put a mirror edge on any of them these days. After I'm done with the fine india and strop it will quietly zip through phone book paper, straight push cut with or against the grain absolutely no catching. Splits hair into curls as if you were whittling it. Good enough for me :D

I highly recommend this video on sharpening, this youtuber has many videos on sharpening and performance. Some of it is very scientific and well reasoned but most is too much for my comprehension, yet I've still learned a ton.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL0alt ... PGGo3W15HQ
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by Toejammer »

I must be old school, cause I don't even have a diamond stone at all.

In my youth, my best friends dad told me something that always stuck with me. After borrowing my favorite pocket knife to strip some wire, he looked at me and said " son,... that's just sorry, there ain't no reason to carry a dull knife" ! And he taught me how to sharpen a blade on a Arkansas stone. (he also showed me how to dress up an edge on the bottom of a ceramic coffee cup) :mrgreen:

For me, I go soft / hard Arkansas w/ Lansky oil, then straight to the ceramic sticks, and then stropped. I find my older, high carbon steel blades need the whole process, but my newer Aus8, 440C, etc.... only need the ceramics to get the edge back. I have a Kershaw D.W.O that I bought off the Snap-On truck back around 1987 or so. I've carried it everyday since then, and it's never seen a stone, just the sticks, and it's scary sharp.
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by SolWarrior »

XX Case XX wrote:I'm going to try my luck at "hand sharpening" some of my knives. I've never done it. I have about 15 "beater" knives to practice on, but have a few questions:

1. Should I use a stone or one of those "diamond" sharpeners?
2. What's the difference between the two?
3. Is there any advantage for one over the other?
4. Where can I find a good tutorial that will show me the correct way?

Any advise would be most appreciated...

_________
Mike
Mike, don't know where you're at with your sharpening practice but, my dad used an old sharpening stone like the one Stakeknife mentioned in his story. (Great story, Stakeknife. It took me away to a peaceful place. Thanks for sharing.) That's all I knew so I went with that and it worked well but it can wear down blades in a fierce way if you're not careful. In fact, I still have a couple for kitchen knives and such. Anyway, I bought a Schrade Honesteel file/sharpener a few years ago and this thing works great on older high carbon knives -1095, etc. (((Not good for newer harder steels.)))

I use this honesteel because it doesn't wear down the blades like stones and other sharpening tools. It's coated with chromium carbide and has striations on it, and on the rounded sides too - which is the area I use most. I use the sides like one would use a rod. I don't let my knives go dull much at all so all they need is a few strokes on the rounded sides, going lighter and lighter as I go (using the best blade to sharpening device angle). Before you know it the edge is shiny and razor sharp. I got this one for around $25.00 on eBay. I use it on my smallest blades to this extra thick 10" blade kukri with 1075 steel and a convex edge, which is a tougher edge to sharpen than most. Good luck!
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by TripleF »

Stakeknife wrote:IN the mid 1950's I spent every summer with my Dear uncle Mike. He was a dirt farmers living In a grand old house in Onedia Kansas, my grandma lived there and as he was the youngest son it fell upon him to care for her. Everyday he and I would come home from the fields and wash up at the cistern pump in the pantry part of the kitchen. He taught me how to wash up to my elbows. We would then practice sharpening his pocket knife. He always had a folder of one brand or another in his pocket. Usually Case, or Kabar. Probably the only brands you could buy at the local hardware.

He would use a black stone that had a course texture on one side and a fine texture on the other. He helped a six year old under stand the process of taking your time and getting the angle just right. He insisted that the real secret was cutting the soft pine after sharpening.

For me the real treat back then were the apples he would bring from the cellar. We would use the newly sharpened knife to peel and cut the delicious fruit.

Looking back I now realize The knives never needed sharpening I think he just enjoyed our time together.

Where's the "LIKE" button ::shrug::

Great stuff bud!!
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by Dinadan »

TripleF wrote:
Stakeknife wrote:IN the mid 1950's I spent every summer with my Dear uncle Mike. He was a dirt farmers living In a grand old house in Onedia Kansas, my grandma lived there and as he was the youngest son it fell upon him to care for her. Everyday he and I would come home from the fields and wash up at the cistern pump in the pantry part of the kitchen. He taught me how to wash up to my elbows. We would then practice sharpening his pocket knife. He always had a folder of one brand or another in his pocket. Usually Case, or Kabar. Probably the only brands you could buy at the local hardware.

He would use a black stone that had a course texture on one side and a fine texture on the other. He helped a six year old under stand the process of taking your time and getting the angle just right. He insisted that the real secret was cutting the soft pine after sharpening.

For me the real treat back then were the apples he would bring from the cellar. We would use the newly sharpened knife to peel and cut the delicious fruit.

Looking back I now realize The knives never needed sharpening I think he just enjoyed our time together.

Where's the "LIKE" button ::shrug::

Great stuff bud!!
I agree that is a good story. Sounds like Uncle Mike was a good man on a few levels.

Looking back at the responses here I see that I am not alone in suggesting a soft Arkansas stone. I use bacon lard for my oil - just strain it through a coffee filter into a clean spice jar and it will keep for a couple of years before it gets rancid. My favorite stone is on a paddle holder. I kind of prefer a box but the paddle is also good.
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by 313 Mike »

Looking back at the responses here I see that I am not alone in suggesting a soft Arkansas stone. I use bacon lard for my oil - just strain it through a coffee filter into a clean spice jar and it will keep for a couple of years before it gets rancid. [/quote]

Wow! Just when I thought I had heard it all in regads to sharpening strategies lubricants stones etc...I can honestly say I have never heard of using strained bacon lard for honing a knife blade. Is this something that you stumbled upon on your own, or is this something common that I have just never heard of? Perhaps you were eating a BLT over your Arkansas stone one day and a particularly greasy piece of bacon dripped onto your stone and you had an "aha!" moment? :lol:
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by knife7knut »

I have several stones that I use for sharpening.For the majority of my sharpening(actually touching up)I use a paint stick with a piece of 320 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper wrapped around it.You can use it either normally(like you are slicing something)or as a strop.Slicing you have to be careful not to cut into the paper.
For more serious sharpening I use a Carborundum Duo-Stone that is 14 inches long and double sided;mounted on a swiveling base.When I got it the tray was filled with lard oil that had probably sat in there for at least twenty years.Rancid is a polite way of describing the smell.Vigorous cleaning has so far failed to completely remove the stench. I use it dry or with just a bit of food grade mineral oil.
For stainless steel knives I use a Smith's Micro Tool Sharpening Pad in both medium and coarse grades. If you decide to use one of these be sure to wash it occasionally with warm water and a bit of dishwashing liquid to remove the metal that imbeds itself in the plastic between the pad.
For serrated knives I use a Smith's retractible tapered diamond hone which also has a couple of handy small tools housed in the handle such as a pair of scissors and a straight slot and Phillips screwdriver;one of which has a cap lifter on it.
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by Dinadan »

313 Mike wrote:
Dinadan wrote: Looking back at the responses here I see that I am not alone in suggesting a soft Arkansas stone. I use bacon lard for my oil - just strain it through a coffee filter into a clean spice jar and it will keep for a couple of years before it gets rancid. My favorite stone is on a paddle holder. I kind of prefer a box but the paddle is also good.
313 Mike wrote: Wow! Just when I thought I had heard it all in regads to sharpening strategies lubricants stones etc...I can honestly say I have never heard of using strained bacon lard for honing a knife blade. Is this something that you stumbled upon on your own, or is this something common that I have just never heard of? Perhaps you were eating a BLT over your Arkansas stone one day and a particularly greasy piece of bacon dripped onto your stone and you had an "aha!" moment? :lol:
Much as I hate to spoil an enlivening theory, it was not a BLT meltdown that led me to using bacon lard!! Actually, a few years ago I bought an old stone whose label suggested using sperm or lard oil. I did not have any sperm whale oil around, but I decided to try the bacon. It works very well. I wondered if my stones would develop a rancid smell, but no problems there. And I guess I can eat my sharpening stone oil if we have an emergency. Humm - maybe I will go downstairs and make a BLT ...
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by Tsar Bomba »

Dinadan wrote:I would get a soft or medium Arkansas stone and a diamond stone.
These are my go-tos. I use a Case soft Arkansas stone that I've oiled since the day I took it out of the clam-pack for many carbon knives and most anything that needs a little more than just a few swipes. Keep it loaded with mineral oil and it works wonders. I also use a fine (red) DMT and that seems to take care of most of my newer stainless knives with ease. I use the DMT dry or with water - maybe it's just me, but some knives seem to take a better edge when the DMT is wet and others seem to almost demand a dry 'stone'. I will also sometimes finish off a blade with an Opinal extra-hard stone (with water) instead of a steel. The Opi stone seems to give a nice bevel polish and carbon steel often gets sharp enough to shave using it.

I will be picking up a Sharpmaker this year but I haven't bothered with any of the "rigs". I don't have much of a problem hand-sharpening, I actually would prefer to get some larger stones (wish they made a 4"x12" or larger DMT) for some bigger blades and for general bench use but the ones I have now seem to suffice for anything that folds and goes in a pocket.
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by Lansky1 »

I like sharpening through technology. I use the lansky jig (but you knew that from my handle ::woot:: ) - puts a better than factory edge on knife blades. Seriously. BETTER than factory edge. Takes all the human element out of it - a basic 3 stone set will run you $25, can not go wrong. Take it from somebody that's worn out 2 sets and is on his 3rd stone set.... trust me, you'll need the $3 base also.

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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by Lansky1 »

gwelker62 wrote:After I acquired a diamond Lansky kit.... I swear I'll never go back to stone.

One thing I don't do though is use oil on them. Dry is the way to go... at least IMO.
Curious - I always use oil on my diamond lansky stones. Why don't you use oil ? I always assumed it makes the diamond stones last longer ?? ::shrug::
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by Dinadan »

Lansky1 wrote:
gwelker62 wrote:After I acquired a diamond Lansky kit.... I swear I'll never go back to stone.

One thing I don't do though is use oil on them. Dry is the way to go... at least IMO.
Curious - I always use oil on my diamond lansky stones. Why don't you use oil ? I always assumed it makes the diamond stones last longer ?? ::shrug::
I thought that diamonds were forever anyway ...
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by gwelker62 »

Lansky1 wrote:
gwelker62 wrote:After I acquired a diamond Lansky kit.... I swear I'll never go back to stone.

One thing I don't do though is use oil on them. Dry is the way to go... at least IMO.
Curious - I always use oil on my diamond lansky stones. Why don't you use oil ? I always assumed it makes the diamond stones last longer ?? ::shrug::
I used oil for many years. Over those same years I've heard arguments against using oil and I finally was won over. The logic being, that the mechanics behind sharpening a blade is the need to wear or grind metal away. Since oil is a lubricant, it defeats that purpose. Lubricant used in a machining process generally has two purposes. One is to cool the surface being machined, and two is to carry/wash particles away. Sharpening a knife blade by hand needs neither.
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Re: Knife Sharpening: Stone or Diamond?

Post by Dinadan »

gwelker62 wrote: I used oil for many years. Over those same years I've heard arguments against using oil and I finally was won over. The logic being, that the mechanics behind sharpening a blade is the need to wear or grind metal away. Since oil is a lubricant, it defeats that purpose. Lubricant used in a machining process generally has two purposes. One is to cool the surface being machined, and two is to carry/wash particles away. Sharpening a knife blade by hand needs neither.
I am not saying you are wrong about the mechanics behind sharpening a blade, but from my personal experience oil really does make an Arkansas stone sharpen better. I am not a physicist so I do not have a scientific explanation but I do believe in my own experience. There are stones made with oil impregnated within the stone and those do not need to be oiled. And I have used some combination grit stones that do not need oil, but for an Arkansas stone I really suggest trying oil.
Mel
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