cleaning IVORY?

[mrwatch]

A friend stopped by with a antique HENDERSON AMES of KALAMAZOO sword with an ivory handle. Circa 1890-1900. The grip is very dirty as the last owner was a heavy smoker plus years of just dirt I guess. I told him I would only try at home a slightly moistened Q TIP with distilled water in a tiny spot as a test too clean it. Do any of you folks have any better suggestions and also he is thinking about sending it out to be professionally cleaned but where? I showed him how MOTHERS MAG can clean the scabbard in a small spot but was not sure about cleaning the ornament and rings which is probably cast brass?
Thanks for any suggestions, Bob

[djknife13]

I use Wenol metal polish (red tube) for metal, celluloid, pearl, brass, aluminum, ivory and even leather and haven't had any problems. I get it on line. I've heard Metal- Glow is close to the same but don't know for sure. ___Dave

[peanut740]

I agree with Dave.I haven't used Wenol,but have used semi-chrome and metal glow on ivory,bone,wood etc.I would imagine some of the other paste cleaners would work also.

[kootenay joe]

Has anyone tried warm water, dish detergent and a toothbrush ?
Ivory that has been handled frequently will darken to a yellow or even orange color by absorbing skin oils. Most collectors see this darkening as enhancing the appearance of the ivory. Is this want you want to remove ?
Can you post a 'before' cleaning picture so we can see what the stains look like ?
kj

[mrwatch]

I do not have the item but I would not call it stained like streaks etc., but covered with tobacco smoke like the scabbard so it is more yellow compared to a eBay picture I showed him. I do know that Ivory is considered a living organism and can possibly absorb any moisture. He just received it so he is naturally being very protective of it as he knew the last owner.

[kootenay joe]

Ivory is not living. It is an old dead tooth. It can crack, especially larger pieces. If you have an old ivory piece and it is not cracked then it is unlikely to crack. I think cracking of ivory has more to do with where in the tusk it comes from and direction of cut, than with changes in humidity.
The yellowing you speak of could be the natural patina from handling, not from tobacco.
I have a fair bit of antique ivory and have never thought of cleaning any of it, so i am interested in seeing ivory that does need cleaning.
kj

[Stakeknife]

Pics we need pics

[mrwatch]

I do not have the item but I would not call it stained like streaks etc., but covered with tobacco smoke like the scabbard so it is more yellow compared to a eBay picture I showed him. I do know that Ivory is considered a living organism and can possibly absorb any moisture. He just received it so he is naturally being very protective of it as he knew the last owner.

I did not mean too say it is still alive or something. But able to absorb moisture or humidity, or dry out and crack?

[kootenay joe]

Ivory does crack so presumably that is from drying out. I don't think ivory continues to take on or loose moisture with changes in humidity. I have ivory carvings that my grandfather collected as antiques in London England about 100 years ago. They have never been stored in a humidity controlled environment so have been exposed to high humidity during summers (80-90%) and low (20-30%) during winters. No new cracks have occurred for at least the last 60 years.
Hence i think old ivory is quite stable.
kj

[knife7knut]

Ivory does crack so presumably that is from drying out. I don't think ivory continues to take on or loose moisture with changes in humidity. I have ivory carvings that my grandfather collected as antiques in London England about 100 years ago. They have never been stored in a humidity controlled environment so have been exposed to high humidity during summers (80-90%) and low (20-30%) during winters. No new cracks have occurred for at least the last 60 years.
Hence i think old ivory is quite stable.
kj

I would tend to agree that ivory that isn't cracked is not likely to crack due to moisture(or a lack thereof)but I'm sure that living in a humidity controlled environment isn't detrimental. Most of the cracks I have seen are due to shrinkage along growth lines or dropping the piece. Most of the shrinkage I see is on old table knives which I think may have been subjected to extended baths in hot water.
Here are two views of an ivory handled knife I have that has a multitude of tiny cracks(crazing)on the surface that may have been caused by storage inside a paper bag in a steam laundry for 20 odd years.It doesn't appear that there was any shrinkage of the ivory although there is a lot of wear to the surface likely due to the fact that it was created in the early to middle 17th century.
As for cleaning I have used Mother's Mag Wheel polish on smooth ivory and just about every other handle material.

[jmh58]

I don't know any thing about cleaning Ivory.. BUT.. It sure looks KOOL as it ages!!! John

[kootenay joe]

k7k, can we see a picture of the entire knife that is from early-mid 1600's ? ("it was created in the early to middle 17th century.")
And a description of it's origin if you know it.
Actually it is such a special knife that you could give it it's own thread over in the ivory sub-forum. I would love to see more of it.
kj

[knife7knut]

k7k, can we see a picture of the entire knife that is from early-mid 1600's ? ("it was created in the early to middle 17th century.")
And a description of it's origin if you know it.
Actually it is such a special knife that you could give it it's own thread over in the ivory sub-forum. I would love to see more of it.
kj

I had posted some pictures before in another thread but cannot locate it at the moment.
The knife was given to me by a friend to whom I had gifted a Buck 110 folder. He had wanted one but didn't have the money to buy one new.I had been given the Buck with about 1/4" missing of the tip and had re-profiled it. I don't particularly care for 110 folders as they are too handle heavy for my taste.
Anyway the story he gave to me was he had bought it about 20 years prior from someone who came into his shop needing money and he had paid $20 for it.He owned a shop that was part laundry/dry-cleaning in back and a hobby/joke shop out front.The knife he kept inside a paper bag in the laundry room.
When I first saw it I didn't think too much about it other than it was a bit unusual in that I had never seen one with a sheath and a small companion dagger. The small knife looked like someone had tried to use it as a screwdriver and the tip was a bit mangled. I was cleaning it with metal polish when I noticed that the blade looked like it was made of Damascus steel.A closer look with a loupe conformed this as well as the larger knife. The Damascus is a very fine grained(many layered)and features a a reinforcing rib running down the middle of the blade and incised cyphers(which later turned out to be Arabic)in gold near the hilt. There is also some cyphers carved into the handle but they proved to be unreadable. The whole handle is covered with what appears to be a man and his family and is different side to side and a lot of the detail is worn away by handling.
I showed it to several people I knew but no one could shed any light on what it said. Finally my wife's(at the time)ex-boyfriend who is a professor at Northeastern University said that he had a friend at Harvard who was fluent in Middle Eastern items and offered to take it to him for evaluation.
About three weeks later I got a call from this gentleman who at first asked if I was interested in selling the knife.That sounded positive but I told him I was just interested in what it said on the blade.
He informed me that it was more than likely from the Oman province of Syria and was made somewhere between 1630 and 1680. It was not a royal dagger but likely from someone of the upper class. He translated the cyphers as the opening lines of the Koran: "There is no god but the one god Allah and I am his prophet" He could not discern what was carved into the handle but theorized it might be a name.He then offered me $1500 for it! Bear in mind this was around the late 1980's which was a tidy sum then. I told him it was a gift from a friend and I don't make it a policy of selling gifts.
Later I showed it to a couple of custom knifemakers;one of whom specializes in Middle eastern knives and he told me he had never seen one with a companion knife OR a sheath.He agreed on the relative age of it.
Anyway that is the story of how I came to own it and have made it a center piece of my collection.

[terryl308]

A friend stopped by with a antique HENDERSON AMES of KALAMAZOO sword with an ivory handle. Circa 1890-1900. The grip is very dirty as the last owner was a heavy smoker plus years of just dirt I guess. I told him I would only try at home a slightly moistened Q TIP with distilled water in a tiny spot as a test too clean it. Do any of you folks have any better suggestions and also he is thinking about sending it out to be professionally cleaned but where? I showed him how MOTHERS MAG can clean the scabbard in a small spot but was not sure about cleaning the ornament and rings which is probably cast brass?
Thanks for any suggestions, Bob

Bob, If you use water and dish soap , don't leave it on the ivory very long, dry it right away and maybe put mineral oil on it after cleaning. All the people that I deal with say not to use water when grinding or sanding it. Water and extreme heat are enemies of ivory. But this info is for making handles not cleaning old ivory, but I think it would apply to cleaning also. I have never used Mothers but I would think it is ok. Terry (custom knife maker)

[kootenay joe]

k7k, Wow ! great read. You got good value for your tipped 110 !
Wonderful knife. This is the kind of find i dream of. Likely many of us do, but only a very few will ever make such a special find.
Thanks for the post and the picture.
kj