Western States

[olderdogs1]

Got this Western States knife in a collection and wondering if this one may be counterfeit. Any opinions appreciated as it is a brand I am not schooled on. It is 5 1/2" closed.

Tom

[btrwtr]

Tom I've seen a lot of counterfeit Western States knives with that skull stamp on the pile side tang. Looks too good to be true to me.

[djknife13]

Tom, the frame looks shaped right to me except the pins on my old yellow celluloid clasp and also the one shown in Platts book (Y125) are closer to the bolsters. In fact, they are so close that most I've seen have pin cracks. I have several of the other large trapper style also and none of them including my clasp have the buffalo on the reverse tang. Also the Knifemakers Who went West book by Platts only lists Yellow (amber cream) and Cracked Ice as options, but I'm pretty sure they used the red striped on some of their smaller knives but none are shown in the catalog pages in Platts book and I could be wrong about that. Your knife possibly could have been made by Case or another company for them. I don't know when or if they actually used the buffalo except for the acid etched ones on the face of the smaller blade on the large folding hunter(5227). If it were mine, I would have a ton of research to do before I reached any permanent decisions on it's authenticity. Good luck with it. ____Dave

[tongueriver]

I don't know enough to have an opinion on this one. I know that a whole bunch of these celluloid Westerns have been listed in the last year on ebay. If this is not authentic, I wonder what it started life as?
I had a W.States bone jack for awhile that said to me "I just ain't right."
If this is a fake, I suspect that one individual is responsible for all or most of them.

[olderdogs1]

Thanks, Case did make a lot of Western States knives to settle the Case debt to Harvey Platts I understand. This one just doesn't seem exactly right as far as the knife in its total. I would appreciate any more opinions as to its authenticity. As most of you know, we don't like to sell knives that we don't feel are right. One person could indeed be behind them all, I just don't know who or if they did this one.
More opinions?

Thanks,
Tom

[Colonel26]

Mr. Tom, I'm no expert. Dave is though and I think he's spot on. From what little I know, I like the frame but not the scales. I've never seen them on a knife that large. Also, I might be off base, but the buffalo just somehow does y look quite right. I can't put my finger on it but it's almost too good of that makes sense.

[btrwtr]

I am normally not one to make a determination based on stamps. This knife looks like many of the fake large frame, celluloid handle Western States knives being sold on eBay. warrior515 has sold a bunch of them. Candy stripe handles, shiny blades and yes, fake stamps front and back.

[philco]

Let me begin by stating I'm completely, totally ignorant when it comes to Western knives. That being said, I noticed the semi-match strike pull on the OP knife and my mind immediately jumped to Chinese manufactured cutlery. Does anyone have a for sure legit Western knife in this pattern (regardless of handle material) that they can examine and perhaps photograph for this thread showing what the pull and pin placement looks like ?

[terryl308]

Old dog, Here is what I have come up with, all info taken out of the book "The Knife Makers Who Went West" by Harvey Platts. The knife model A125, and Y125 is listed in the 1931 cataglog sheets, 1936 and 1941. They are listed as offered in a "amber cream colored comp. Non-breakable handle, and pearl comp. 5 1/2" long . The only candy stripe shown on any knife was on a 105PB Safety Push button dagger type knife, called Pyralin 1941 page 142. But I suppose they could have used that on the 125 also. The 1936 sheet also says "see price list for other handles". Sorry not much help I guess.

[djknife13]

I'll pull mine out of the safe and shoot a picture tonight when I have a few minutes. The match striker on mine is pretty close to the one here and the blade shape looked the same, but if someone copied it I guess it would be similar. The teeth on mine are a little different. Also when I post the picture (I'm on dial-up so it takes a little more time than I have now) you will see the difference in the handle pin placement. ____Dave

[btrwtr]

I am not sure where this knife came from but it is not an old original Western States knife. New celluloid handles with typically mangled pin heads. Shiny, abrasively cleaned blade and fake stamps is enough to tell me it's not real. Yes the frame could possibly be from an old or even Western States knife but that isn't enough to call it genuine.

Tom you a correct to be suspicious of this knife and you posted it in the right forum.

[olderdogs1]

Thanks to all that are replying to this post. The evidence keeps piling up that this one is not right. We will put this one with some others that we have managed to weed out and use it to educate others on what a bad one looks like. Still would like to see a real one from Dave.
Thanks again,
Tom

[djknife13]

Hi Tom. I'm back home from work with a few minutes to spare. Here is my old Western States Clasp.___Dave

[djknife13]

The frame sure is close, a clone if not an old original. The pins on mine appear a little irregular and two of them are actually larger than the rest but I'm certain this hasn't been apart. The ones near the bolsters are closer than yours. The match striker on your's has finer teeth and more of them and the background appears different. To me, the stamp on yours looks pretty good but I'm lousy at spotting fake ones. The Western States intersects the bolster exactly like mine. I can't tell if the Boulder, Colo. is the same. They almost touch on the bottoms of the arch and the straight Boulder, Colo. I guess it's still possible Case made it but it will take someone more knowledgeable than me to call that one. It sure is a pretty knife.___Dave

[olderdogs1]

Thanks Dave,
I appreciate you posting this one.

Tom

[btrwtr]

I noticed the semi-match strike pull on the OP knife and my mind immediately jumped to Chinese manufactured cutlery.

I agree Phil. Blade looks like it might have started here.

Every Western States with this Buffalo skull stamp on the pile side tang that I have seen has been a fake.