Its hard to believe but this is a fake

[PCwizard]

This GROHMANN 340S Mini is a Chinese Clone, Copy, Fake or whatever you want to call it.

There making them so good these days its hard to tell. Even the people who bought one were commenting that this clone was as good as the original. I almost bought one before I read the comments. If I didn't read the comments where people were praising the clone I wouldn't have known.

[kootenay joe]

How do you know this is a China made knife ? The only markings indicate N.S. Canada. Is Grohmann having their knives made in China now ? i.e. not a fake but an offshore contract knife like many other knife companies, for example Buck.
Interesting mystery & a beautiful knife.
kj

[PCwizard]

How do you know this is a China made knife ? The only markings indicate N.S. Canada. Is Grohmann having their knives made in China now ? i.e. not a fake but an offshore contract knife like many other knife companies, for example Buck.
Interesting mystery & a beautiful knife.
kj

I just stumbled on it, this eBay user only sells clones from what I can tell, look at everything he sells.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/262390239734?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

[kootenay joe]

I see what you mean, seller is in China. Grohmann is not a big seller. Seems odd to set up all the tooling to make a run of a knife that is not that popular. (yes people 'like' them, but how many actually own a Grohmann knife ?)
I wonder if these came from a contract run for Grohmann in Nova Scotia ?
kj

[RobesonsRme.com]

If not for A. G. Russell, hardly anyone would own a Grohmann knife.

Charlie

[PCwizard]

If its real I would buy one.

I just went through the sellers inventory, he's got some of the best clone I've ever seen. Maybe some are real but no way the Sebenza are. But still there dam good looking.

[kootenay joe]

Every knife he sells is made in China. His Sebenza look-a-likes are not marked "Sebenza" so they cannot be called a 'fake'. There are China made Hinderer knives that look identical to a Rick Hinderer original including the "Hinderer" marking so those are fakes.
My bet is this China made Grohmann is every bit as good as the Nova Scotia original. The only way to know would be to buy one of each and test them both, but the cost of the real Grohmann would make it an expensive test.
I still wonder if these are intended for Grohmann in Pictou Nova Scotia to be marketed by them as a Grohmann knife.
kj

[danno50]

If not for A. G. Russell, hardly anyone would own a Grohmann knife.

Charlie

Hey Charlie, not if they live in Canada. I have had two Grohmann fixed blades since I was a teenager, long before I heard of A.G.Russell.

I just went to the Grohmann website, they list the same knife (340S) mini lockback for $81.50. I sent them an email advising them of the ebay seller and his buy-it-now price and asked if it was the same knife? Will post back when I get a reply.

Dan

[danno50]

I got a reply to my email to Grohmann:

The message I sent them:
Hello, Are you aware that there is an ebay seller (viterknife) based in China who is selling the 340S mini lockback for a buy it now price of $19.99? Is he selling fake/clone copies of your knife? This is a topic of discussion on AAPK (allaboutpocketknives) web forum.

Their reply:
Good day, thank you for your email. No we didn't realize it, but we aren't surprised either. There have been at least 16 copies of our knives so far that we are aware of. We'll have to let the office know to check it out. Appreciate the email.

I should have asked them if their lockback knives were made in China. Think I will head over to Cabello's today to see if they sell these at our local store.

Dan

[Lawrence]

That would have had me fooled. Here's my Grohmann from Canada that I have had for a few years.

[kootenay joe]

I have 2 German knives that are copies of Grohmann's patterns. I think these are from 1980's. I think they might be at my 'country' place. I will check & post pics if i find them. This is in follow up to the Grohmann reply in which he says he knows of 16 different copies of their knives.
i just bought one of these $19.99 Grohmann knives in China. When i get it i am willing to send it to anyone who has the same pattern from Grohmann for comparison & testing. And then i would like it back. If by the time it arrives it has been discovered that these are the same knives then of course there would be no need to compare.
kj

[danno50]

Looking at the OP knife and the knife posted by Lawrence, they sure look identical.
Dan

[PCwizard]

Its getting so I don't even want to look at new knives anymore.
If there starting to clone $60 knives.
What next?

[kootenay joe]

Wiz, it's not a clone if these were ordered by Grohmann in Nova Scotia and a few happened to get left behind in China.
If this is the case i would call it a contract Grohmann knife made in China.
"Clone" to me means an unauthorized copying of a knife pattern, like the Hinderer marked knives coming from China.
However if the China Grohmann was not ordered by Grohmann N.S. then it would be a clone.
I hope we can discover the truth here.
kj

[jerryd6818]

Son of a biscuit eater. Way to piss in my cheerios. I love that pattern and ended up buying (actually Grant (shearer) bought it and sent it to me) one out of Australia because it was cheaper ($4x.00 plus shipping in Aus. then to the US). The pictures are even the same as were in the Australian eBay listing. Sure knocked the shine off it with this post. Ignorance is bliss.

Lawrence, does Canada have no import laws regarding a country of origin mark?

My picture.

eBay Australia pictures.

[PCwizard]

Wiz, it's not a clone if these were ordered by Grohmann in Nova Scotia and a few happened to get left behind in China.
If this is the case i would call it a contract Grohmann knife made in China.
"Clone" to me means an unauthorized copying of a knife pattern, like the Hinderer marked knives coming from China.
However if the China Grohmann was not ordered by Grohmann N.S. then it would be a clone.
I hope we can discover the truth here.
kj

I see your point, your correct.

[Ideaphore]

From the Grohman website:

"Grohmann Knives are 100% Canadian made, made with pride in our factory in Pictou, Nova Scotia! All items ordered online will also be shipped direct from our factory to you!"

[kootenay joe]

Still not 100% conclusive. The website text could be years old and in need of updating.
One of the posters said he would email Grohmann and ask if some of their knives are from China.
Has this email been sent ? If not i will email them, but don't want to rub it in if they have already been asked and responded.
kj

[Shearer]

Jerry.
Did you notice that your knife has a smaller tang stamp.


Grant

[PCwizard]

Every knife he sells is made in China. His Sebenza look-a-likes are not marked "Sebenza" so they cannot be called a 'fake'. There are China made Hinderer knives that look identical to a Rick Hinderer original including the "Hinderer" marking so those are fakes.
My bet is this China made Grohmann is every bit as good as the Nova Scotia original. The only way to know would be to buy one of each and test them both, but the cost of the real Grohmann would make it an expensive test.
I still wonder if these are intended for Grohmann in Pictou Nova Scotia to be marketed by them as a Grohmann knife.
kj

I pulled this Sebenza photos and looked at them with Photoshop, there marked with Chris Reeve Circle R and the Made in Idaho, they blotted it out for the sale photos. You can easily see the photo editing with Photoshop.

[kootenay joe]

So is the knife you receive the one that is pictured ? Or, did they lift the Sebenza picture from a CRK dealer site, partly blur out the markings and use it for the listing ? and then send you a China made knife that has same dimensions, profile, etc. ?
I see he has 3 Sebenza look-a-likes, each for a different price, but it looks like the same knife in every listing.
I can understand faking the Sebenza which is one of the most popular higher end knives. But a Grohmann N.S. folder is very 'niche'.
I wonder how it works: do those who run a knife factory in China decide "let's make a Grohmann knife" ?
Or, does a business person from USA or Europe, etc. approach a knife factory in China, show them a Grohmann and ask "how much to make 2,000 of these" ? and then come to an agreement, knives get made and shipped to the person who ordered them ?
kj

[jerryd6818]

Jerry.
Did you notice that your knife has a smaller tang stamp.


Grant

No Grant, I did not notice that. Are you saying the tang stamp on my knife is smaller than the tang stamp on the knife in question?

Edit: And did you notice the two pictures I took from the eBay Australia auction (shown in my earlier post) show two different knives. The picture taken outside is like the one I have. The picture taken with the whip is like the one in the eBay USA listing from China.

This is a comparison of the tang stamp on the knife I have vs the one from China currently posted on eBay.

[jerryd6818]

I went one step further and called Grohmann this morning. The lady that answered the phone said she could answer my questions so I asked her if they have any knives made in China and she said no, all their knives are made in Canada.

So I asked her if they stamp their tang stamps or if they etch them. She said they stamp all the tang stamps.

BUT

They show two pictures on the R340S Mini-Lockback web page. One with the large "tang stamp" and one with the small "tang stamp". http://www.grohmannknives.com/index.php ... ade-detail

Since mine is the small "tang stamp", I went and dug it out. Under magnification it shows up as etched.

NOW

Does that mean I've ended up with a Chinese replica or was I given false information? I'm more confused now than I was when I started this journey into folly land. For comparison and since they're only $20, I'm tempted to buy one of the ones out of China that shows the large tang stamp. But I really don't have any faith in that actually answering any questions (or actually getting one with the large tang stamp).

[jerryd6818]

I sent them an email a little while ago asking which size "tang stamp" they use and just got a response (copied below)


Good day,
We have many sizes of stencils for all the different knives we use them on, so it varies depending on who is doing the etching.
best regards,

GROHMANN KNIVES LTD
PO Box 40, 116 Water St, Pictou NS B0K 1H0
Ph 1.902.485.4224 Toll Free 1.888.7.KNIVES
Fx 1.902.485.5872
http://www.grohmannknives.com http://www.gknives.com

~Superior Handcrafted Quality for Over 50 Years~

So I was given false information and they do not "stamp all their knives" For me, that brings into question the validity of any other information I was given.

[kootenay joe]

Jerry, it is quite possible the person you asked if they stamp or etch all their knives was not differentiating between "stamp" and "mark". The answer may have meant "yes we mark all our knives". Very few people know the difference between stamping & etching so the Grohmann person might not have realized what you were asking even if you were perfectly clear.
One thing is clear: there is a "Grohmann" folding knife made in China.
What is not clear is: is there an identical looking folder also being made in Nova Scotia ?
You have been told twice by Grohmann (email & telephone) that they make all their own knives in Pictou N.S.
What we all have learned from being knife collectors is that contracting out is a common practice and that knife manufacturers do not readily admit that some of their knives are contract made.
Now we each must come to our own conclusion.
kj